teh stupid, it does burn (updated)

Should Bill Clinton, Sandy Berger and their team have been held criminally or civilly liable for dereliction of duty 3,000 people died in the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, given that they knowingly allowed Osama bin Laden to flee Sudan for sanctuary in Afghanistan? *


from morrison's other watering hole

* it's a legitimate question because of the inclusion of the cavuto


"The pressure from the anti-American left rattled him and he opened Pandora's box," said Gingrich.


Indeed, it probably never occurred to Gingrich to consider how ridiculous these kinds of attacks are. If you support torture, you're pro-America; if you support the rule of law, you're anti-America. If you believe war crimes should be ignored, you're pro-America; if you believe in accountability, you're anti-America.



good news


now, if we could only get her, and mike back on here locally....


mr smith (updated)


the one exception to the rule*

* rule being, every host on fox is a lying sycophant


compare the above with remarks from the stupidest person on air @ nbc


to paraphrase chris hayes on olbermann, whenever you debate the merits of torture, the sadists win

and from mr black

Deep Thought

The United States doesn't torture, but anyone who opposes torture is un-American.


more from the booman



and because some on the right will not accept anything that wasn't championed by ronald reagan:

The United States participated actively and effectively in the negotiation of the Convention . It marks a significant step in the development during this century of international measures against torture and other inhuman treatment or punishment. Ratification of the Convention by the United States will clearly express United States opposition to torture, an abhorrent practice unfortunately still prevalent in the world today.

The core provisions of the Convention establish a regime for international cooperation in the criminal prosecution of torturers relying on so-called "universal jurisdiction." Each State Party is required either to prosecute torturers who are found in its territory or to extradite them to other countries for prosecution.


why does ronnie hate america ??

from andrew sullivan via brad's blog

some commentary from someone who would know



more light reading



Something More For Eric Holder To Chew On
by Tim F.


Inquiry Into the Treatment of Detainees In U.S. Custody
Report of the Committee on Armed Services United States Senate

http://armed-services.senate.gov/Publications/Detainee%20Report%20Final_April%2022%202009.pdf (15meg .PDF)

Jesus. That really gives new meaning to the famous Pogo line: We have met the enemy, and he is us.



to reiterate

Art. 147. Grave breaches to which the preceding Article relates shall be those involving any of the following acts, if committed against persons or property protected by the present Convention: wilful killing, torture or inhuman treatment, including biological experiments, wilfully causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health, unlawful deportation or transfer or unlawful confinement of a protected person, compelling a protected person to serve in the forces of a hostile Power, or wilfully depriving a protected person of the rights of fair and regular trial prescribed in the present Convention, taking of hostages and extensive destruction and appropriation of property, not justified by military necessity and carried out unlawfully and wantonly.

Art. 148. No High Contracting Party shall be allowed to absolve itself or any other High Contracting Party of any liability incurred by itself or by another High Contracting Party in respect of breaches referred to in the preceding Article


This morning on "This Week with George Stephanopoulos", Obama's chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, said the White House did not support prosecuting -- not only CIA officers who tortured, believing in "good faith" what they were doing was legal -- but would also not support the prosecution of "those who devised the [interrogations/torture] policy."


if they continue on this path, can they themselves be brought up on war crimes charges ??



i drink coffee

but have some tea


the above and below from avadon


riddle me this

how can you reconcile this subhead:

"a netowrk of america's next generation of classical liberal leaders"

and have a executive council made up of:

Clint Bolick
Alliance for School Choice

Leonard Liggio
Atlas Economic Research Foundation

T. Kenneth Cribb
Intercollegiate Studies Institute

Edwin Meese III
Ronald Reagan Fellow, The Heritage Foundation

Edwin J. Feulner, Jr.
The Heritage Foundation

Gene Meyer
The Federalist Society

Barbara Ledeen
Founder, Independent Women’s Forum

Randal C. Teague
The Fund for American Studies

Grover Norquist
Americans for Tax Reform

Ron Robinson
Young America’s Foundation

neo-conservative is more accurately neo-liberal,,so classical-liberal is more accurately blatantly-conservative ??

just asking


strange democracy


hey obama, congress


investigation and prosecution of war crimes are not an option, you are REQUIRED to do so


i'm sure the meadea will be all over it, though


beware of the dos prompt


In an interview in London in April 2008, I remind F.B.I. director Robert Mueller of the attacks planned against targets on American soil since 9/11 that his agents have disrupted: for example, a plot to kill soldiers at Fort Dix, New Jersey, and another to wreak mayhem at army recruiting centers and synagogues in and around Torrance, California. These and other homegrown conspiracies were foiled by regular police work. The F.B.I. learned of the Fort Dix plot from a Circuit City store where a technician raised the alarm when asked to copy firearms-training videos, while the Torrance cell was rounded up when cops probed the backgrounds of two of its members after they allegedly robbed a local gas station.

I ask Mueller: So far as he is aware, have any attacks on America been disrupted thanks to intelligence obtained through what the administration still calls “enhanced techniques”?

“I’m really reluctant to answer that,” Mueller says. He pauses, looks at an aide, and then says quietly, declining to elaborate: “I don’t believe that has been the case.”

read the above (http://culture11.com/blogs/theconfabulum/2008/12/24/fbi-director-enhanced-interrogation-hasnt-prevented-attacks/) then watch the below

The CIA inspector general in 2004 found that there was no conclusive proof that waterboarding or other harsh interrogation techniques helped the Bush administration thwart any "specific imminent attacks," according to recently declassified Justice Department memos.


if anyone tells you torture works, they are lying

and from that far left smear site

...That's what the conservative media consists of: partisans offering inconsistent, insincere, and nonsensical arguments on behalf of torture and the depraved thugs who authorized it.

do read the whole thing



a request of congress to block every single thing the obama administraiton may want until they do something about this


and the same goes regarding the habeas bullshit too

of course, i have to work that saturday



as a reminder [updated]

for the primary, i voted for kucinich; in the general, i voted for mckinney


i did not know he wouldn't be any better than UU., i only thought that he might not be, and would be pleasantly suprised if i was proven wrong
there is the consolation that i'm not dissapointed and was not fooled again
there is some hope, he has just under four years to make amends

or make it worse



wondering if rep. bean will ever join in on this

H.R. 984: 2009-2010 State Secret Protection Act of 2009


via Michael

also, regarding habeas corpus

The bottom line is this: Current procedures under the CSRT are such that a perfectly innocent individual could be held and could not rebut the Government's case and has no way of proving his innocence.

I would like somebody in this Chamber, somebody in this Government, to tell me why this is necessary
. I do not want to hear that this is a new world and we face a new kind of enemy. I know that. . . . But as a parent, I can also imagine the terror I would feel if one of my family members were rounded up in the middle of the night and sent to Guantanamo without even getting one chance to ask why they were being held and being able to prove their innocence...

But what is avoidable is refusing to ever allow our legal system to correct these mistakes. By giving suspects a chance--even one chance--to challenge the terms of their detention in court, to have a judge confirm that the Government has detained the right person for the right suspicions, we could solve this problem without harming our efforts in the war on terror one bit...

Most of us have been willing to make some sacrifices because we know that, in the end, it helps to make us safer. But restricting somebody's right to challenge their imprisonment indefinitely is not going to make us safer. In fact, recent evidence shows it is probably making us less safe.


When I am president we won’t work in secret to avoid honoring our laws and Constitution

man, if only that person got elected president



oh wait, he did

more here:


and here:



'cus it needs to be said every once and a while

is he talking about geneva convention violations by us

“Rules must be binding. Violations must be punished. Words must mean something.”

or something some other country did, just wondering


just words on a screen


from quentin


more like this

Deal reached, vote expected today
Joe Wilbert and Tom Scully, THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Wednesday, April 1, 2009
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The Lemmon Aid Act of 2009 (H.R. 714), introduced by Rep. Bean (D-IL), and co-sponsored by 37 other members, is expected to be introduced and voted on in the House today. Early expectations are that it will narrowly pass and move to a contentious vote in the Senate later this week. The Bill, the Lentigo Educational Medical MobilizatiON Act, encourages preventative measures and increased medical education, tries to rectify the shortcomings of the Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement and Modernization Act of 2003 by removing the donut hold in Part D, allowing the government to bargain for lower drugs prices in conjunction with the Department of Veterans Affairs, and not allowing unelected accountants making life and death medical decisions. It will force portability for workers to take their existing coverage from one employer, thru unemployment, to a future job, if that plan is more expensive or offers less coverage. One of the biggest provisions of the bill is the ban of blocking coverage of preexisting conditions. The insurers must cover all people who apply, pay their premiums, and need medical assistance...